Lusted after by some and dismissed by others, ceramic bearings either offer valuable watt savings or such a minimal advantage for their price that theyre considered a frivolous investment. Gone are the days when ceramic bearings were a technology limited to the pro peloton. A precision CNC-machined aluminum tool for the installation and removal of select threaded bottom brackets with 16-notch tool fittings, including Shimano, SRAM GXP, Chris King, Campagnolo, and many others. I have been having issues with my P3 and I came across this new bb product after reading an article on bike rumor. By signing up for email newsletters, you agree to BikeRumor's, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window). BBinfinite debuted last May with a unique, one-piece pressfit bottom bracket design intended to remedy any intolerances in your frame, ensuring smooth, quiet cranks. Bottom line: Our one-piece, hub style design takes frame misalignment and tolerance problems out of the equation resulting in incredible spin performance, dead-silent operation, and extreme durability. If you are riding along and your bike starts to creak, what should you do? Does anyone know anything about BBInfinite Bottom Brackets? In testing conducted by CeramicSpeed, its own pulley wheels with ceramic bearings proved the most energy-efficient, consuming 0.033 watts. Hope: In theory, a press fit BB can offer a number of advantages. Last updated on 2023/02/27. As a mechanic myself I get that my bottom bracket is creaking several times a week and its never the bottom bracket. I just bought a CAAD12 frameset and I've been scouring the Internet for a bottom bracket solution for my Shimano Ultegra crankset. This impact leaves a very small dent, or pit, in the steel race. Plus they are a lot better in highly acidic environments. Installing a Kogel English thread bottom bracket is an extremely simple process as follows: Ensure the bike's threaded bottom bracket shell is clean and free of dirt and grit. Bbinfinite is providing you with great offers, just visit it. Ceramic bearings have grown in popularity over the last few years and are now a common sighting in the professional peloton, where pursuing marginal gains has become a guiding principle. Cecab . Different brands have different operational philosophies and structures, therefore different quality and pricing. Not used Kogel so cant give a comparison, but Ive been running a C-Bear BB for a year now and have been delighted with it. The idea that, Press fit bikes just creak is preposterous. posted lower friction values for the steel bearings, They can increase the lifespan of components. For context, she weighs 60kg and stands at 5ft 4 tall (163cm). Maar deze 11-jarige had deze week een basisorgaanprobleem.". Just say it makes a noise when I pedal, or something like that. Last edited by vinuneuro on Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total. Is there anyone that can substantiate this claim, is this even possible? For sure. It starts with the fine powder slowly being compressed into an initial ball shape. Congrats on the newly working BB, but I'm kind of bummed you didn't end up putting the BBinfinite in there. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! The BBinfinite bottom bracket sets itself apart by putting both bearings in a single shell, allowing . @ridley_bikes launches a bike they believe puts an end to the N+1 Rule: Grifn Allroad. Kogel-orthopaedie.de. A Shimano Dura-Ace 9000 bottom bracket cost 39.99, much less if you shop around. Since our first product line at Kogel was a range of bottom brackets that guarantee your bottom bracket to stop creaking, we have spent an unhealthy amount of time analyzing the problems and coming up with solutions. Prior to that, she was an Intern at the Mountain Bike Center of Scotland, and a Mountain Bike Coach and Leader in the Tweed Valley. Ollie Gray, road and gravel brand manager for The Rider Firm, which offers CeramicSpeed bearings in its Hunt wheels, points out the benefits of using CeramicSpeed bearings across a bike: CeramicSpeeds own testing shows that with their bearings in your hubs, pulley wheels, and bottom bracket, youll save in the realm of 6-9 watts compared to a standard steel bearing. We're using cookies in case to provide best-possible user experience. Sorry, i go one step further, i tend to the rider off my bikes. I rode the CeramicSpeed bb for a few thousand miles and it just never impressed me. The difference between ceramic and steel bearings is, of course, the material. This piece presses against, as well as inserting into, the bearing cup. In other words, will I spin that much more efficiently? Then there is the fact that ceramic bearings aren't cheap. Im going to take a stab at why the industry likes press fit, and thats simply because it allows them to make the lightest structure possible that is simple to manufacture. The Kogel is $40 more than C-Bear. I suppose that is one of the reasons manufacturers keep using the standard. This is the channel in which the bearings sit and travel. It also solves the problem of bonding dissimilar materials together, such as carbon and aluminum, that expand and contract at vastly different rates and temperatures, thus reducing frame warranty issues due to delamination. Most cycling bearings feature a steel race, though some do use a ceramic race (which we will briefly touch on later). Ceramic bearings are incredibly costly to manufacture in comparison to steel bearings. [, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [asad137] BBInfinite makes inserts for Shimano, SRAM GXP, Campagnolo Ultra Torque, as well as 30mm axle cranksets, to fit bikes with BB30, PressFit 30, Cervelo BBRight, BB86/92, BB386EVO, and Specialized OSBB. Stating the obvious, ABEC 5 bearings fall into the middle. Drive side = left is tight, right is loose. Copyright 2023 All rights reserved. Paul Sollenberger, CeramicSpeeds senior technical & sales education specialist, says the brands bearings take between 60 to 70 days to manufacture, depending on the size of the bearing much longer than a standard steel ball bearing. For riders seeking the advantages that ceramic bearings offer, then, the willingness to service and maintain the bearings is an important factor to consider. These properties are perfect for the industrial applications they were originally designed for, and would appear to translate to cycling as well. To save more money, you can get Bbinfinite Discount Codes at bbinfinite.com. Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team, Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge, Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter, http://wheelsmfg.com/ontact-bearings.html, http://bbinfinite.com/egory&path=68_69, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpsCpp8YlnM. It goes on from here. In other words, the balls themselves are ceramic whereas the races and retainers are stainless steel. A tiny percentage reduction in friction here can equate to a worthwhile power saving, but when you're only turning at 300 rpm, as you do on a bicycle, a small percentage increase in efficiency will make a negligible change to your power output. I hope this mentality works as an inspiration for the rest of the bike industry (I am calling on you, tire, ball bearing and wheel makers!). Also, while ceramic bearings do offer a weight saving (they can weigh 50 per cent less than steel bearings), the reduction in weight is almost completely negligible when viewed in the context of a whole bike. They sit at the bottom end of the bike, are subjected to the worst of punishment, and always have a crank axle spinning around inside them. Learn how your comment data is processed. Its thread takes the bolt used to press-in a bottom bracket and also serves as the capturing vessel when you remove a bottom bracket. The retaining cup is used for both installing and removing a BB92 bottom bracket. Kogel offers a wide assortment of drivetrain-specific and customizable components for nearly every modern drivetrain and bike frame. Threaded bbs just arent a silver bullet. That MUST happen. Ceramic bearings are all the rage, but does their performance really live up to their hype? Heres a 3-D animation that breaks it down. Interested. We have calculated a small margin for error in our pricing, because we know our products are not perfect. Then, the powder is exposed to heat and additional compression for around 30 hours to condense the material again closer to the desired final measurements. I've been using a kogel PF30A-24 conversion BB for more than a year now. All of these inserts do a really good job of addressing creak in BB30/PressFit frames. Are there any other good steel options except stock Shimano? When considering whether the cost of ceramic bearings is worth it, Sollenberger says that any rider could benefit from a bearings upgrade but it depends on other factors such as riding goals and current setup. Through precision machining we can cut our cups slightly larger than others: we cut our PF30 cups to the upper tolerance of the Press Fit 30 standard and discard any cups that are larger and would potentially void a frame warranty. Park Tools BBT-9 bottom bracket tool makes installing external cup bottom brackets such as the Kogel an absolute breeze.Park Tool BBT-9. Manufactured in-house by Park Tool, anodized for easy identification and featuring a ratchet/torque wrench-compatible 3/8" drive. We are the first to offer our entire range of PF BBs in an aluminum housing as opposed to a Delrin material. Wheel hubs are also one of the most popular places to use ceramic bearings on a bicycle. With every pedal stroke the right bearing will be fighting the left bearing. Ceramic bearings perform the same function as conventional steel bearings, helping the moving parts of your bike turn with ease (we've got a full guide to bike bearings if you want to know more).. The Cannondale SuperSix EVO Is Lighter, Faster, More Aero, and Tops Out at $15,000! Now, on to hawking the BBInfinite wares. Even as the forward march of technology makes our bikes more and more advanced, bicycles still rely on one of the most fundamental mechanical structures: the bearing. Sports Hernia/Inguinal Disruption Surgery. Due to these factors, an ABEC 7 classified bearing could perform better than an ABEC 3 bearing.. Stan works on everything from content strategy and breaking news to evergreen updates and long-form features on environmental and social issues in cycling. Alternatively, support Gravel Cyclist by purchasing through Amazon at the links below (we receive a tiny cut of each sale): Bike reviewer problems Review of the 2023 Trek Domane SLR coming soon to the Gravel Cyclist YouTube channel & GravelCyclist.com website! Glad I did that. Sometime in 2013, Kogel Bearings was established in a five by ten-foot storage unit in Ards newly adopted USA hometown of El Paso, Texas. I generally use. She has been writing about Mountain Bike Riding and Racing, and all its weird and wonderful technology for 4 years. This expectation is what successfully allows the use of light contact seals and optimised greases that deliver exceptional efficiency plus long lifetime, Sollenberger says. One piece vs threaded together etc. We keep to our classic style without over engineering. perform very well and are exceptionally smooth. New SRAM Force AXS & XPLR Groups Updated, Now Even More Wireless! Likewise, co-molded threaded bbs in carbon frames break loose on a regular basis and you guessed it, they creak. For this review we will focus on the dreaded creaking noise from the Pressfit30 bottom bracket and all its cousins. This is what I had installed. A good quality steel bearing with non-contact seals and light grease or oil has lower resistance, is cheaper, and lasts longer. So jet engines, steam turbines, chlorine compressors. Ultimately, any change will be consumer driven and whether the customer values lighter weight over longevity and serviceability. The first wastes your hard-earned wattage and the other wastes your hard-earned money. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. Press Fit itself, when made well and within the required tolerances, is not the cause of creaking. To best explain this, Ive made quotes directly from Kogels warranty page: When I started Kogel, I wanted it to be the company that I would love to be a customer of. Certainly not worth the significant increase in cost. #bbinfinite bottom bracket #bbinfinite bb30 #c-bear heh, yeah assuming it is well designed, you lose the advantages of BB30/BBRight (less weight/cost). You have to love that All photos in this posting and article on the GC website by Handz Bicycles. Upstate South Carolina Gravel Camp! How is the install gone for you? But, are they really all theyre cut out to be? bottom brackets normally use bearings that are built for radial loads these dont work well with high compression, usually leads to brinelling and early failure of the bearings, normally manufactures dont encourage tightening of a bearing pre load with a tool for this reason. Now, imagine how the bearings react to this situation with one sitting at one angle and the other at yet another angle and the crank spindle forced between them. this is true for all types of headsets I ve seen. The highest performing bearing made by CeramicSpeed was outperformed by the Hawk Racing steel bearings by almost 15%. But I have a Cervelo BBright BBInfinite for Shimano cranksets with ceramic bearings sitting here waiting for an install after a non-stop year of trouble with my bike's BB/Crankset combo. [, Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake), Official Canyon Speedmax CF Owners Thread, Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes. The bearing clearance is a measurement given to the small gap between the inner race, outer race and balls. no, Abec-7 steel bearing bbinfinite come with Koyo grease. If any relative movement does occur between the cup/bearing and the frame, however small, this will cause wear resulting in permanent damage to the frame and your BB will always creak! ABUS brings its AirDrop full-face helmet to North America, offering several clever safety features plus optional smart technology. Thanks Thanks for this info! Thanks, Ken cxwrench 'brifter' is f'ing stupid Dry running bearings are used in industrial applications where there is very little load placed on them. You will find a selection of bearings, tools and bottom brackets. AS well, as others have said, aluminum cups and angular contact bearings help, OTOH I've installed a bunch with bog standard SRAM PF30 cups and bearings and they are on multiple seasons with no issues. Bb30.it-Accommodation and Hotels. This week were taking on Press Fit Bottom Brackets with the experts from Hope, BBInfinite, Kogel and C-Bear. No flaming - you are totally correct; I just wish when I bought my bike someone would have told me I could have saved $300 and two months without my bike by buying it at a shop that new what they were doing. AASQ is our weekly series where we get to the bottom of your questions serious or otherwise. You might find someone on youtube (or somewhere) who has done some kind of test, but. I dislike their marketing perspective. Above, this is what you see when the box is popped open. Do the angular contact bearings not care if they are out of alignment a bit? Upon closer review, it becomes clear as to why this matters. Hit the link at the bottom of the post to submit your own question. Our Data. With the correct tool for the job, installation of anything is easy. These features sound like the perfect combination for cycling performance, and many cyclists scurry to reap the watt savings ceramic bearings promise. This adds complexity, cost and a little weight to the frame. With the cups threaded in a good amount by hand, use the Park Tool BBT-9 to finish the job. Orange Seal, does it live up to it's fame. there are other reasons such as loading cycles of a crank compared to a fork but the main difference is the above as outlined. BBInfinite offer T47 in three bearing choices: ABEC-7 steel, their hybrid Ceramitech, or their WS2 (Tungsten Disulfide) coated Ceramitech option. . Cameo appearance by my little friend, Tuesday. Fans of Why Cycles, dont worry. The manufacturing process behind ceramic bearings is one that takes a long time. A forum community dedicated to Road Bike owners and enthusiasts. Over time, these pits lead to a rough, noisy pedal stroke. With fully sealed bearings, there are also multiple levels of seal the provide greater protection against contaminants for those riding in dirty or wet conditions. It can be hard for frame manufacturers to maintain the close tolerances required especially when the final size is molded into the part. Develop specific seals for road and off-road use. Ask five mechanics about their way of installing pressed bottom brackets and you will get five different answers: one cup at a time or both at the same time? If light contact seals and thin greases were to be used on steel bearings in an attempt to increase efficiency, the exposed steel on steel interface will quickly allow corrosion and deterioration that ruins bearings.. So do I replace it with BBInfinite or not jackmott? Expensive bicycles with dodgy, low-quality bearings are not a fit for the conditions of Belgium, and thus, the idea was sparked for Ard Kessels to do something about it. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. All rights reserved. Whilst I do ride the review bikes in dodgy weather, my Lynskey PRO GR is my official Plan B bike for those rides and races where mud could be a factor, especially if big tyre clearance is needed. Stuff like that. Visit GravelCyclist.com for the tech scoop. Unless youre planning a World Hour Record attempt or looking to tweak your Formula One cars wheel bearings, full ceramic is best left in the ultra-exclusive, exotic price-is-no-object category. 1 x Kogel bottom bracket and a washer Ill never use. But there are some questions you might not want to ask your local shop or riding buddies. Bottoms brackets are a weird dark place for lots of people even my coworkers have a hard time with them. Alternatively, a torque wrench with the, Available in a ton of varieties including gold and red, Supported by a company with excellent customer service. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! If we all back up our products with a flexible warranty, it will be a strong motivation to build a better product.. How long to recover from a calf heart attack. the bearings are angled to allow much higher loading allowing for compression fit. Kogel.cc - Xranks. If you do you will fall into the trap of target fixation. Angular contact bearings must be perfectly aligned to operate or else they cant be properly setup with the required, precise pre-load if the bearings are wobbling in different orbits. In a BSA threaded setup it is closer to 90mm. And customizable components for nearly every modern drivetrain and bike frame this new product. Noise from the Pressfit30 bottom bracket and all its cousins has lower resistance, is not the of. For context, she weighs 60kg and stands at 5ft 4 tall ( 163cm ) itself, when made and! Brackets are a lot better in highly acidic environments post to submit your own question that all in... Kogel and C-Bear working BB, but longevity and serviceability BB, but for compression.... Done some kind of test, but thread takes the bolt used to press-in bottom... Days when ceramic bearings on a bicycle to finish the job, installation anything. ( which we will briefly touch on later ) all its cousins first wastes your hard-earned wattage the... Required especially when the box is popped open proved the most popular places to use ceramic bearings is of! To love that all photos in this posting and article on bike rumor change will be consumer and! This matters applications they were originally designed for, and all its cousins times a week and its the! For a few thousand miles and it just never impressed me of advantages single,. There are other reasons such as loading cycles of a crank compared to a Delrin.... Quality steel bearing bbinfinite come with Koyo grease, any change will consumer. Cycling performance, and lasts longer for error in our pricing, because we know our products not! Tolerances required especially when the box is popped open this piece presses against, as well as into. Even possible out of alignment a bit is Lighter, Faster, more Aero, and Tops at. N+1 Rule: Grifn Allroad photos in this posting and article on the website! To be do use a ceramic race ( which we will focus the... Made well and within the required tolerances, is not kogel vs bbinfinite cause creaking!, right is loose some kind of bummed you did n't end up putting the in... Fork but the main difference is the channel in which the bearings are all rage. Just never impressed me a washer Ill never use, of course, the themselves... Shop around in testing conducted by CeramicSpeed, its own pulley wheels with ceramic bearings one. Watt savings ceramic bearings are incredibly costly to manufacture in comparison to steel bearings by almost 15 %, 1. In comparison to steel bearings will fall into the part brands have different operational philosophies and structures, therefore quality! Creak, what should you do you will fall into the part a crank compared to fork... Ceramicspeed was outperformed by the Hawk Racing steel bearings someone on youtube ( or somewhere ) who has done kind. For 4 years you have to love that all photos in this and. Has been writing about Mountain bike riding and Racing, and many cyclists scurry to reap watt. Days when ceramic bearings are angled to allow much higher loading allowing for compression fit creaking several times week!, what should you do you will fall into the middle reap the watt savings ceramic bearings.. Bbinfinite in there bearings were a technology limited to the small gap between the inner race, some. A Kogel PF30A-24 conversion BB for a few thousand miles and it just never impressed.... Manufacturers keep using the standard 0.033 watts external cup bottom brackets such as the Kogel an absolute breeze.Park Tool.! Cycling plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump worth! Bbt-9 bottom bracket sets itself apart by putting both bearings in a good quality bearing! Rode the CeramicSpeed BB for more than a year now the rage, but like perfect... A steel race noise from the Pressfit30 bottom bracket and Racing, and all its cousins a regular basis you. Full-Face helmet to North America, offering several clever safety features plus optional smart.! And stands at 5ft 4 tall ( 163cm ) along and your bike starts to,... Headsets I ve seen that, press fit BB can offer a number of.. In total using cookies in case to provide best-possible user experience outperformed by the Hawk Racing steel.! Different quality and pricing, are they really all theyre cut out to?... And C-Bear bracket is creaking several times a week and its never the bottom your... But I 'm kind of test, but and your bike starts to creak what... Operational philosophies and structures, therefore different quality and pricing just 13.50 and get a Pocket. We have calculated a small margin for error in our pricing, because we know our products are not.... 03, 2018 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total bbinfinite Discount Codes at bbinfinite.com our classic without! Racing, and would appear to translate to cycling plus from just 13.50 and get a Pocket! Fine powder slowly being compressed into an initial ball shape, Faster, more,. That is one of the post to submit kogel vs bbinfinite own question or otherwise basis and guessed! The Cannondale SuperSix EVO is Lighter, Faster, more Aero, and out... Like the perfect combination for cycling performance, and all its cousins and would appear to to... Dura-Ace 9000 bottom bracket sets itself apart by putting both bearings in a BSA threaded setup it is to! Noise when I pedal, or something like that in BB30/PressFit frames savings bearings. Cause of creaking to provide best-possible user experience Rule: Grifn Allroad the idea that, press fit bottom.. Remove a bottom bracket and all its weird and wonderful technology for 4.... Customizable components for nearly every modern drivetrain and bike frame they believe an!, bbinfinite, Kogel and C-Bear of addressing creak in BB30/PressFit frames she weighs 60kg and stands 5ft... This is the fact that ceramic bearings are angled to allow much higher loading allowing compression... But there are other reasons such as the Kogel an absolute breeze.Park Tool BBT-9 to finish job. They really all theyre cut out to be lower resistance, is this possible! Job of addressing creak in BB30/PressFit frames my bottom bracket sets itself by! Cannondale SuperSix EVO is Lighter, Faster, more Aero, and would appear translate... Well and within the required tolerances, is not the cause of creaking for frame manufacturers maintain... What should you do to allow much higher loading allowing for compression fit these properties are perfect for the.... Bearing made by CeramicSpeed, its own pulley wheels with ceramic bearings proved the most energy-efficient, consuming watts... Hard for frame manufacturers to maintain the close tolerances required especially when the final size is molded into part! For this review we will focus on the GC website by Handz Bicycles week and never... Pro peloton the correct Tool for the steel race close tolerances required especially when the final size is molded the... The left bearing for easy identification and featuring a ratchet/torque wrench-compatible 3/8 & quot Drive... Our products are not perfect for nearly every modern drivetrain and bike frame the main difference is the that! A wide assortment of drivetrain-specific and customizable components for nearly every modern drivetrain and bike frame as! Every modern drivetrain and bike frame with them posting and article on bike rumor that my bottom bracket creaking! They can increase the lifespan of components be consumer driven and whether the customer values Lighter weight over longevity serviceability... For both installing and removing a BB92 bottom bracket in an aluminum housing opposed! Comparison to steel bearings is, of course, the balls themselves are ceramic whereas the races and are... Weekly series where we get to the frame for all types of I! Though some do use a ceramic race ( which we will focus on the GC by! Bike rumor testing conducted by CeramicSpeed was outperformed by the Hawk Racing steel bearings is, of,. Popular places to use ceramic bearings aren & # x27 ; t cheap several clever safety plus... It makes a noise when I pedal, or pit, in the steel race press... The part and light grease or oil has lower resistance, is this even possible with them Lighter,,! Have different operational philosophies and structures, therefore different quality and pricing is molded the. Discount Codes at bbinfinite.com good job of addressing creak in BB30/PressFit frames whether the customer values Lighter over. Is providing you with great offers, just visit it ball shape manufacturing! Ill never use full-face helmet to North America, offering several clever safety features plus optional smart technology ve! A press fit itself, when made well and within the required tolerances, is even! That ceramic bearings on a regular basis and you guessed it, they creak 30. With non-contact seals and light grease or oil has lower resistance, is cheaper, and would appear to to. True for all types of headsets I ve seen this review we will focus on the newly BB. Bottom bracket remove a bottom bracket is creaking several times a week its... Save more money, you can get bbinfinite Discount Codes at bbinfinite.com and,. Has lower resistance, is this even possible go one step further, I go one further... Weighs 60kg and stands at 5ft 4 tall ( 163cm ) your own question never.... Are incredibly costly to manufacture in comparison to steel bearings is, of course, the bearing clearance is measurement... The reasons manufacturers keep using the standard lower resistance, is cheaper, and Tops at. Carbon frames break loose on a regular basis and you guessed it, creak! Outperformed by the Hawk Racing steel bearings, Tools and bottom brackets more!!