So to me it was pretty clear that it likely came from them. Even though I had, again, written statements from two ICU nurses who took care of me saying: Yes, there was blood, [laughs] theres photographs, and there still was the argument of like, there wasnt enough blood or your face wasnt so distorted you could couldnt tell who you were. The department of social services substantiated Mackenzies allegations, as did the Missouri Child Abuse and Neglect Review Board, which is an independent state panel. Cause then you cant think that it could be you. But once I got out of the hospital and I learned that information, I remembered that a classmate had died in the same basement about 16 months earlier. I think its a reflection of the systemic prejudices . She considered the advantages and disadvantages of reporting her mother, but ultimately feared she might not even be believed, as her mother would tell people she was mentally ill or lying. [2] Morrison's bond was originally set at $40,000, but lowered to $5,000 over prosecutors' strenuous objections. I cant remember if it was in the Rhodes essay or in another essay that, in hindsight, you wouldve tightened up. And The New Yorker article also alluded to a few things that you had gotten loose with in a couple of paragraphs. Absolutely. [2][g], The packages she says she received were supplemented by hangup calls, which a faculty member Fierceton occasionally lived with recalled her receiving in the months preceding the trial of her mother's lawsuit against DSS later in her junior year. The university's police did not know at first where the building was and the city's paramedics did not know how to get to it. It recommended that Fierceton's master's be withheld until she paid a $4,000 fine and that her academic transcript carry a notation that she was sanctioned for her "objective inaccuracy" in answering the first-generation question on her application. Penn claims that was meant purely for purposes of the program, to attract as many students as possible who could benefit from participation in it. After the trial ended with Morrison prevailing and the agency ordered to remove her name from the child-abuse registry, Fierceton resolved to change her last name. MF: And with that, like you said, notion of: Well, theres no way that you went to private school and all of this could have still happened, or that you could be low-income now and this idea that socioeconomic status is permanent. MF: Yes, definitely. After her graduation summa cum laude, political science professor Anne Norton invited Fierceton to stay with her and her partner in their large house in Northwest Philadelphia for as long as she needed to in order to complete her master's over the next year. RG: And so where is your story now? [2], The trust notified Fierceton at the beginning of 2021 that it was conducting an investigation into the allegations. Asked by the school's wellness director (who later told police she had seen insulting texts from Morrison on Fierceton's phone) about the reasons for the injuries, Fierceton said that she was "clumsy" but did not offer any details. MF: Yeah. Right. Cops have accused the MTV star of stalking as well as violation of an order of protection. Fierceton, according to Penn's response, had learned during her parents' divorce how to make calls to the child-abuse hotline and that teachers were mandatory reporters. Who would hold party elites accountable to the values they proclaim to have? And is it somewhat of a defense mechanism that people deploy to protect themselves? Its virtually almost an unknown phenomena or to people who are working in the field, its certainly known, but theres been very little research on it, which partially complicates my Ph.D., because theres so little to draw upon. So Im not sure how much could have been missing. [1]:95, Judge Kristine Allen Kerr ultimately held for Morrison. And I kind of felt like things were resolved until the next week when there was more [laughs] more downhill event. so that people have the background there. You had mentioned that you actually made a transcript of your interview with Deputy Provost Finkelstein shortly after the conversation. They had done their own investigation again, quotes on investigation and then I had submitted over a hundred pages of documents to them. [10], Fierceton, who outside of school had also taken on a volunteer position as a birthing doula, decided during that summer to apply for a Rhodes Scholarship to get a Ph.D. at Oxford University in England, encouraged by a classmate who had just won one himself and was impressed by her activism. [14], Fierceton and her faculty supporters have suspected that Penn's investigation of her, and its determination to cast aspersions on her credibility, may be related to her role in fomenting a wrongful death suit filed against the university in August 2020, before she had been announced as a Rhodes Scholarship winner. Later, another Whitfield parent Morrison had talked to told this woman that she believed Fierceton had done this to get admitted to an Ivy League college, an idea which she found preposterous. And then again there was trouble getting him out of the basement. They have since claimed that that is not what they [laughs] insinuated, I believe my former lawyer spoke to it in The New Yorker piece. Seeing other students consult their parents for minor decisions made her feel left out; she avoided telling people she had been in foster care before college. RG: And The New Yorker article also alluded to a few things that you had gotten loose with in a couple of paragraphs. In her reading, Tracy came across an article that congratulated Mackenzie Fierceton, a University of Pennsylvania graduate, on being named a Rhodes Scholar. "Without her trauma, she didnt matter", wrote a commentator in the Tulane Hullabaloo. And whats the difference between the U.S. and English system? Youre engaged in a lawsuit with Penn. I identify with the FGLI umbrella term and definitely being a low-income student, but Ive never really called myself a standalone first-generation. As in her case, first responders had experienced similar delays in finding and reaching the building, and difficulties removing Driver once they did due to the same accessibility issues. And they were the ones I believe and this is public now because Penn attached it to their response to the lawsuit I filed and I believe they were the first ones to mention that I had gone to private school and that they were questioning if I was low-income. "[2], Near the end of November Fierceton was named one of 32 Rhodes scholars from the U.S. for the year. But its relevant to financial aid and the student should check whatever box is going to give them most access to financial aid, which would be yes to both questions. My understanding is there were two anonymous emails. It didnt have any facts of the case. I said were almost done. Penn officials, of course, have said the interview was appropriate. And thats again, like not because there isnt abuse or neglect going on in families that looked like mine, or biological families that looked like mine. Our theme music was composed by Bart Warshaw. RG: And so when you applied for your masters in social worker or sociology? [2], Morrison's arrest had been reported in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch,[6] where commenters on the online version of the story took her side, speculating that Fierceton was "an entitled brat" who had vengefully fabricated charges that had the potential to end her mother's medical career. One trigger for the beatings was sexual abuse by one of her mother's boyfriends, Henry Lovelace, Jr., a fitness trainer and multiple winner of the Missouri's Strongest Man competition in his weight class, which her mother warned her never to talk about. They reported it to the state's child-abuse hotline. And I dont remember all of the questions, but it was a really intense, rapid fire of really difficult and challenging questions. When I came to Penn and saw all of these students who were living that life, there was a sense of community and solidarity amongst us, which was very powerful for me because I just felt so out of place. And then very quickly turn to very specific questions about different instances of abuse. To me, it seems like any reader of the English language would read that in a literary sense , of its self-exploration, self-doubt, trauma. So one question was: Are you from a low-income family? MF: Yeah, so Penn First for the whole FGLI community. Yeah. She lost consciousness and was taken to the hospital, where she spent three days in intensive care. But it was in the sense of: I didnt recognize myself both because I was beaten and my face was swollen and whatever, and I felt like at rock bottom and broken. We started building this, and this is exactly who we built it for. RG: I think for a lot of us, we have to sort of other poverty and abuse and put it in a box, partly, to protect ourselves. And so the fact that shes continued pursuing you to me kind of demonstrates the entire case. That would have to be the rationale that they would have for those childhood journals to be faked. I was like: Great. And thats actually one of the things that, if there was any doubt whatsoever about this story, in some ways it was settled by that. And then to be so unanimously disbelieved and, at that point, this article was like a paragraph and a half. While that was not literally true, Penn's own definition of an FGLI student included those who have a "strained or limited" relationship with a parent who has graduated from college. She entered foster care only at the age of 17, after making a complaint of abuse against Dr. Morrison a complaint that a court later found not to be credible. I think this is a conversation not necessarily for people who are still in question about what happened here. Is that just an interpretation or did they say anything that suggested to you that the fact that you had gone to a private school and grown up in an upper-middle-class situation meant that you could never at any point consider yourself low-income? And please go and leave us a rating or a review it helps people find the show. "I had so much anger and grief, and I didn't want them to be affiliated in any way with this new life I was building. RG: or in graduate school. [2] She was also working two jobs, as a policy fellow with Philadelphia City Council and another interning in social work at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Raised in Chesterfield, Missouri, a West County suburb of St. Louis, she attended and graduated from the Whitfield School in Creve Coeur. Whereas a social worker comes into a poor home and looks around and sees just the normal poverty that our system has foisted on people and says: Oh, well, clearly this is somebody that needs to be stripped out of here. We want to think of it as: If you were ever rich, youre always rich; if youre ever poor, youre always poor. was truthful, Rafaelle feared that Penn might share its information with the government and if the U.S. Attorney decided to pursue a prosecution, it would be likely to last a long time and consume much of her attention. Brandt, the Chesterfield police detective who had originally investigated the case, said later that the prosecutor never explained to her what that new evidence was. And in the U.S., there is much more pressure to pull kids out of homes, right? Within days of the article being published, the universitys general counsel was in touch with Mackenzies mother. I didnt encounter many of them in the two years that I was living in foster families. As youve had time to sort through this, what do you think was driving Penn to go through this process, which they had to know, at some level, would cost them? ", Morrison said. Rather than it being for the purpose of benefiting the students themselves. She had begun to remember more about the incident, and while still not certain how it had happened recalled that before it she and her mother had been fighting about Lovelace. They didnt respond, though Mackenzies biological mother has denied the allegations of abuse. he asked in the first. And its no offense its not like the most profound . She had not, she insisted, written her original essay with the intent of increasing her chances of admission. I had never heard of FGLI, but these labels resonated with a story I was still trying to process. [3], After the interview White emailed Morrison about how it went; she wrote back regretting that Fierceton continued to tell the same story. After a teacher reported what they felt was abuse, a social worker came by and your mother was able to just charm the pants off her. And its no offense its not like the most profound . So that was what the actual poem and personal statement was about [laughs.] And I think I just share that because I think its a powerful example of if that is as far as theyre going to go when theres literal documentation from child me and that accusing me of that being faked, I really am like: I dont know, short of a video montage of instances of abuse from 6 to 16, what would convince them. And if you havent already, please subscribe to the show so you can hear it every week. And it started with, this paragraph-and-a-half of waking up in the hospital and then, like you said, looking at my face, not recognizing myself, and kind of describing what I felt like and what the room looked like. RG: And because you were not just low-income, actually no income, other than the jobs that you were working nobody has complained about the low-income one, right? We dont have ads, so we depend on our members 35,000 and counting to help us hold the powerful to account. @RachelAviv for @NewYorker How much research has been done on the foster-care-to-prison-pipeline? RG: And so youre becoming rather inconvenient to the university at that point , RG: I would assume, which plays into the way that universities and elite structures think of diversity, I think. "[2][j], The evening the story ran, Ruderman called Fierceton back and told her she had received some anonymously written emails casting doubt on what she had written. Yeah, it was, things like that where I simplified all of these foster kids that youre living with a biological family who have kids, which I would say are foster siblings. Did she lie? [4] After gathering all the evidence, they approached Driver's widow, Roxanne Logan, who had not been informed of the accessibility issues and delays involved in her husband's death; in fact she had been given the impression he had been evacuated from the building almost as soon as he began experiencing symptoms. They had done their own investigation again, quotes on investigation and then I had submitted over a hundred pages of documents to them. And if you read it aloud, its almost exactly the length of the phone call. I wrote a poem about the actual what the message was, which is so cheesy and Im cringing at my 17-year-old self [laughs], but it was about the healing power of gratitude. [2], In the early 2000s the couple went through a protracted divorce during which a guardian ad litem was appointed to represent their daughter's interests at the custody hearing. And many more vicious sentiments. I tried to help as much as I could. And what was the first-generation community like on campus? The Inquirer story came out in November 2020. And where are you at school? And you saw that playing out right away, right, when your biological mother was first arrested? Mackenzie Fierceton (born Mackenzie Terrell on August 9, 1997; later Mackenzie Morrison, [1] : 63-64, 86 ) is an American activist and graduate student currently studying at Oxford University. So those questions came like later on and were really a part of the initial interrogation. The Inquirer story came out in November 2020. [2], In public, while she was at Whitfield, Morrison and her daughter seemed to evoke the Gilmore Girls, echoing that television series's main characters, a single mother and her precocious daughter with a close and strong relationship. Like, it seemed like an airtight case from my perspective. She applied to a program at Penn's School of Social Policy and Practice (commonly referred to at Penn as SP2) that would allow her to begin graduate studies while still an undergraduate, so she could graduate with a master's degree in the field a year after completing her undergraduate degree. And that is part of what felt like it gave me such a home, is because we had these sort of underlying shared experiences, but all came from different backgrounds to an extent, and all still supported and accepted one another. Gathering outside Caster, whose renovation they also demanded, they marched toward College Hall, where Winkelstein had taken over as interim provost following Gutmann's departure, and chanted for her ouster as well. And then she hired a law firm and eventually they were doing their own investigation for several months. [2][4], After she had recovered from her seizure incident earlier that year, fellow students told her how difficult it had been for first responders to get to the basement of Caster Hall, where SP2 is based and holds most of its classes, and how difficult it had been to get her out. The notation in her transcript remains. And how much did she challenge your medical condition after that beating? Fierceton said that when she had applied to SP2 as a sophomore she had cleared it with the school's associate director of admissions, who told her that a student's biological parents were not relevant to that definition, and said the same thing in 2020 (Penn's OSC interviewed the associate director and SP2's associate director for financial aid whom Fierceton said she had a similar conversation with; neither remembered speaking with Fierceton about the issue)[1]:111112). Her history teacher described the incident this way: She showed up at my classroom door with a bloodied and battered face and then fainted., Mackenzie was hospitalized. And theyll openly talk about this. There were so many there are, I guess I should say so many moving pieces. Yeah. What about Rhodes? Its, in my opinion, because they get overlooked and the kids like me are kind of rendered invisible by the privileges of our biological families. I didnt even really think about it when I checked it, because I felt like I had a lot of information that backed it up. And then she hired a law firm and eventually they were doing their own investigation for several months. The mother hired a high-powered attorney and engaged in a local campaign to discredit Mackenzie. Im curious, having dealt with so many people along the way, who are questioning your story, how do you feel like the boxes play into this? Not as something that is for the benefit of the MacKenzies, the people who were being brought into the school, but actually for the benefit of the university itself, its image and also for the students. [2], Classmates who told Fierceton this also noted the similarities to another medical emergency in September 2018, when a 38-year-old SP2 graduate named Cameron Driver had suffered a cardiac event during a class in Caster's basement. RG: Or whatever our kind of contemporary version of it is. MF: So thats the background of him. But it was definitely something I saw happening sort of this funneling of kids from the child welfare to criminal justice system. I mean, part of it is honestly like its looking at cause we just wanted to be as thorough as possible of when [laughs] I was crying, and then I was crying and taking breaths. And I dont remember exactly what their statement was, but they disputed it. And I just want to read this for people. "[2], That feeling was not mutual, Fierceton came to suspect. The court granted Morrison a protection order against her former husband; Fierceton had no relationship with him from that time onward. Thank you so much for having me. Nothing I have is persuasive to these people. Cause I had assumed it was her. "[27], For the Penn investigation, Fierceton relied on the definition on the webpage for Penn First Plus, the university's support program for FGLI students, which includes the language about the student having a "strained or limited relationship" with the graduate parent. In addition it offered details of what its own investigation had concluded about Fierceton's childhood and adolescence that led OSC to believe it was likely that she had exaggerated or fabricated outright her claims about her mother. Fierceton's mother's supporters have maintained that her daughter was an emotionally manipulative girl who injured herself and fabricated other aspects of the abuse in order to become a more appealing candidate for admission to an Ivy League college such as the University of Pennsylvania. And now they have to face the fact that someone who looks like them, who shares all these identities with them, could be the source of all of this harm. So not that I think at all the population of kids who are in foster care is representative of what abuse or neglect and what households they occur or dont occur in. [Laughs.] She is poor, but she has not been poor for long enough. And that dynamic, I would say, [laughs] probably played a big part in all of this. There were some pretty basic errors, such as my name, my birth name, and my birth place, and claiming that I didnt have a sibling, that I wasnt low-income, a lot of facts that were pretty easily disputed. [2], Shortly after the Rhodes investigation began, Rafaelle was informed that Penn was proposing to revoke Fierceton's bachelors on the grounds of her apparent self-misrepresentation. So Rachel had it and Penn disputed it. RG: And did they say anything along those lines? Fierceton told the story that, according to her diary, her mother had told her to tellthat she had tripped while playing with the family dogs and bruised herself on the corner of a nearby table. [Laughs.]. RG: Anything in particular jump out at you after having read back over that transcript? If you want to give us additional feedback, email us at [emailprotected] Thanks so much! She felt as if it might have been an attempt to intimidate her. She, to my knowledge, has stuck by that. I do think that it is a huge defense mechanism that people deploy. [2], Fierceton shared the information she had with Logan, who in turn took it to a law firm that investigated further. Like, I dont have the precise statistics in front of me, but if you asked people to guess at the number of people who will experience, say, two years of poverty in their life, people will miss it by magnitudes. [2], For her senior year, Whitfield gave Fierceton a full scholarship. While the investigators understood, they also wrote that the limited information she provided may have been more likely to elicit an answer favorable to her. White, who had apparently drafted the offer, added a sentence to it requiring Fierceton to say she was agreeing to it "voluntarily and without pressure" after she learned that Fierceton was complaining to professors that she felt Penn was pressuring her to do this. Teachers at Whitfield who had been supportive while she was there dropped out of touch. And Im kind of one of the lucky ones where I had really expansive and thorough documentation for all the parts of this story. Smith said he believed the university had decided before it began investigating that Fierceton's abuse allegations were false and that she had fabricated them with the goal of finding an easier way into Penn or another elite school. And you experienced that yourself, right? A trial was held in early 2019 at which she, Fierceton, a psychologist and a DSS investigator testified. The teacher recalled that she had black eyes and hair matted with blood, a description corroborated by a nurse who saw her on arrival after an ambulance brought her to nearby Mercy Hospital St. Louis. RG: Yeah. Penn has released its hold on a master of social work degree from Mackenzie Fierceton the former Rhodes Scholarship recipient who filed a lawsuit against the University following its investigation into allegations that she falsified her status as a first-generation, low-income student and survivor of abuse. Her admission to Oxford was unaffected, and she began her graduate studies in sociology there later in the year, with a Penn professor covering her tuition. But I also think it has something to do with the way that we understand poverty. In The New Yorker article, one teacher had written: She showed up at my classroom door with a bloodied and battered face and then fainted., And then, Rachel Aviv, the reporter also quotes Sherry McClain, who was a nurse who was assigned to you, she said: She had two black eyes, and her hair was full of blood. So you use what you have, uh, which are the definitions that were already out there. But I guess I cant say for sure. [2], Fierceton refused, and a week before she withdrew from the Rhodes Scholarship, Penn's Office of Student Conduct (OSC) notified Fierceton it, too, would be investigating. And it was a very similar situation where it took everyone a long time to get to the building. Thats been my understanding of it. Its a very different lifestyle. Was there abuse before this? Fierceton clarified her identity during the interview:[4]. So first-generation and/or low-income, again, is the acronym. In its response to Fierceton's lawsuit, the university says its general counsel talked with Hayes, who said that bringing the charges had been the "biggest mistake" of his career. But it was definitely something I saw happening sort of this funneling of kids from the child welfare to criminal justice system. Why were you in the hospital that long? Like, they want to curate a diverse experience for their well-off students, so that they can say that they had this diverse experience in college . There were three instances of attempted contact from her family or foster family. But that was definitely a driving force for why I decided, ultimately, to withdraw because I felt like: OK, federal prison is no joke. 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