However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. I have this motor. Its almost as if the battery drains faster in that final 20%. 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. But yeah, different people. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? Not everyone has the time to grind for an hour up the climb. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. Funny that motor has a gear box, but only one gear? -- Wild Bill. The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 (EP800) e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. I feel like I've been missing out on so much! If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. All e-Bike assist mode gets disabled during the downhill slopes. While the motor is both more sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power. Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. the rattle it because the sprag bearing that used to be used in most motors has been replaced by DT swiss style star ratchet drive rings. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. So far so good. We need to go deeper. In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. Yeah, that's pretty poor! On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. Truly unfortunate you lost it. Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. I tried to find out the cause of this. Don't take things too seriously just get out there and enjoy whatever you own and have FUN! It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. Can we get reviews this in depth for regular bikes? Those Merida ebikes ride quite good too. Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. Shimano get your shit together or just say that you're not going to find a fix. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. If you aren't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, you would get way longer distance. First revealed to the world in September of last year, Shimano EP8 finally arrived on the e-MTB scene as the successor to the very popular Shimano E8000 motor. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. It's kinda frustrating. I despise young people buying ebikeswhat a bunch of lazy. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. I also have a YT Decoy with Shimano E8000 motor. Can I give 100 upvotes please? JavaScript is disabled. The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. The current spares situation is shocking, l've been waiting six weeks for a battery lock for my E8000 equipped Kona and have been told "June" is the earliest l can expect to see it. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. So despite being an engineer the non-linear noisy nature of the reporting makes it very difficult to plan rides and I almost always finish the last few km without assistance for bigger rides. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. Perfect? Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. Some say it's unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked. Already have an account with us? Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. Once paired, find the Customise menu and select Assist. On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the. With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. This is because the assistance drops off quite quickly when you stop pedalling, particularly compared to the Bosch motor, which continues to push on for just a fraction longer. Gear or similar. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. For consumers who do have an EP8-equipped Commencal with e*thirteen cranks, the Andorran brand is offering to replace the e*thirteen cranks with Shimano ones, regardless of whether theyve experienced issues with their EP8 spindle or not. The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. What is rattling? "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. The Shimano EP8 RS motor, the key to the experience. Along with the new EP8 motor, Shimano has also released a larger 630Wh battery, which seems to be the most popular option at the moment youll find it inside both the Canyon Spectral:ON and Merida eOne-Sixty. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. The question of what happens with this combination is for the manufacturer of that combination to answer.. All I could find is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 until Oct/Nov while they addresses some final issues. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. Try to tackle crazy steep tech climbs. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. Probably more than some rattle. quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! Currently, I own two e-bikes with a new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Bosch Motor on its way. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. Really? If in doubt about such components, we recommend speaking to your bicycle manufacturer.. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? Can never hear it over the sound of the wind rushing by or the trail / wheels noises. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. And that's with the big heavy battery too. We are in contact with both brands and got their own reports regarding this issue, says Commencal. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. My take away besides the obviously pro/con talking points was the weight of the bike. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. 2. And compared to E8000, the new EP8 motor is considerably more powerful on the trail, whilst retaining the smooth and intuitive delivery that weve always dug about Shimanos drive units. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. I was sure it was a motor issue till I realized I needed to put the speed sensor on the new wheel. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . Easy fix. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. Going the right direction in weight reduction. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. We bought drive units and crank arms, we are replacing at our cost all damaged parts and are covering labor [and] shipping costs that might occur. Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. Non-recommended 3rd party cranks can make a crack in the spindle because the difference in design from Shimanos crank causes increased stress around the spindle hole. Why so delicate, bro? The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. But please don't anyone kid themselves that it's as much of a work out as an analogue bike, if there was no mechanical advantage over analogue what would be the benefit. The most prominent reports of EP8 axle failure exist on two EMTB forum threads. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. Some claim it's a dangerous motor that suffers spindle failures. What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. Otherwise I do not care. Couldn't agree more. Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. As to how the de-tuned EP8 motor performs? me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. Make sense. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. Indeed Shimano EP8 is starting to become available across quite a wide range of bikes at various price points. Does Shimano know why the spindles are snapping? Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. It's significantly more muscle, which was much-needed in order for Shimano to keep . They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. Indeed Specialized actually built the new Levo around a mullet setup with a 27.5in rear wheel, in order to shorten the chainstays. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. I'd do way more on a big day. Posted Oct 21, 2020. If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! - Lightweight and small form factor There's 21-percent more torque (85 N/m total) in Trail and Boost modes. Repair and maintenance of Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha and Brose eBike motors Repair and maintenance of eBike motors from the following manufacturers: Bosch Active Line, Bosch Active Line Plus, Bosch Cargo Line, Bosch Performance Line and Bosch Performance Line CX For more details on the full range of Bosch motors click here Sell it to me, bet ya cant specially at a respectable 90 keys. oooof! Stab happy!". The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. I rode the engine too, the thing is the engine is super quiet once you charge on the pedals, and you've got that annoying rattling noise as soon as you are on the freewheel and cruising down the trail Shim is working on it from what they said. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. All the grit is gone because it's clearly stuck between your bitter little arse cheeks.. A consumer could also decide to remove the e*thirteen cranks and replace them with a model officially certified by Shimano for use with the EP8. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. Upon a little digging on the internet, it appears that this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. Just kidding! Specializeds Mission Control app continues to be the market leader in terms of connectivity, tuning options and user-friendliness. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. 214 Mine gets very hot. I've already posted this on the Commencal Meta SX Power thread, but wondered if other bikes with the Shimano EP8 motor and battery have seen a similar problem. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? Anyone having problems with the charger? Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. My first thoughts are that the disengagement part of the motor that allows it to pedal freely after 20 has already broken. The Brose Mag S motor has been used in the Specialized Levo and Kenevo since 2018, though it was recently updated for the release of the new Levo. I had this happen on my Orbea Rise but with different circumstances. I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. When youre at those 30-40km/h descending speeds, EP8 doesnt punish you for stamping on the pedals to build some extra speed in the lead-up to a jump or dropoff. Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? 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